Jeanette from Money with Gospage — how to pay yourself consistently

Gabi

Hi, Jeanette. Thank you for joining me today!

Jeanette

Oh, thanks so much, Gabi, for having me. Brilliant!

Gabi

I looked back on my first two podcasts and I realised how I sounded like a giddy schoolgirl. So I decided today I'm going to be much more calm and measured and just thank you for being my third podcast guest. This is my excited face.

Jeanette

I was gonna say leave that to me then, because I'll probably come across that way this time.

Gabi

It's all right, we can be excited together. Right. To kick us off, could you tell us a little bit about you and your business?

Jeanette

Of course. So my business is Money with Gospage. It's a financial coaching business which I set up nearly a year ago at the end of last year, and the prime focus really is to help people to feel more comfortable and in control of their money.

Gabi

What led you to set it up? What was your motivation?

Jeanette

So I worked in financial markets for 25 years and decided... actually throughout the whole time I was there, I was constantly getting friends and family asking me questions around their money situation. And so when I decided to leave that space last year, I thought, "Why not go out on my own and see if I could actually build a business around it and start helping both individuals but also small business owners?"

Gabi

How have you found the transition from corporate, big finance into running your own business?

Jeanette

Oh, it's completely different. It's a strange concept, particularly with what I was doing before which was very immediate in terms of the impact and working in financial markets which are live markets, compared to a financial coaching business where it's much more on me. I've had to learn a lot of patience, shall we say. A lot of patience and just have that confidence in myself that I'm doing the right thing.

Gabi

So I was talking to my last guest on Friday about her ideal client, and I thought that was quite interesting. So I wanted to know who is your ideal client?

Jeanette

My ideal client is somebody that really just wants some guidance and support to help them to get more confident about money. And that can really be anything from everyday finances, so just helping to get a bit more organisation into the day-to-day. What's coming in, what's going out, to actually anything through to thinking about their financial future and how do they set up for that. So my ideal client is just somebody really who wants to have somebody by their side to help them to understand the options and to figure out what the next step is really, to have that engagement to want to do that.

Gabi

What's the most typical question you get asked by clients?

Jeanette

So, because I work with a lot of small business owners, I would say that one of the most typical questions is, how do I actually pay myself consistently? This has come up quite a few times. I run both workshops and work with clients one-on-one. And I think particularly when you're maybe in a service business where you haven't got any sort of consistent form of income, it's figuring out how do I actually give myself a salary? So, I've worked with quite a few people on this. We do some exercises where we'll go through and have a look back on their revenue and then figure out a baseline income that they can pay themselves every month, regardless of whether their business is seasonal or whether they have a month where they run a special offer. So just trying to figure out a baseline income. Because at the end of the day, you know, most of us, it's our primary income, so we do need to make sure that when we're running a business, that we are actually paying ourselves like an employee.

Gabi

Have you had any surprising questions that you didn't see coming?

Jeanette

Oh, I'm not sure actually. I guess maybe one that's, it's not necessarily a surprise, but it's maybe something that I wasn't necessarily aware of before. But it's about putting up your pricing. I've had quite a few questions around that. So I've worked with a lot of women who have been in business for a number of years and have actually never put up their pricing. And the thing I think's surprising about this is that, as I said, we're running businesses, we need to be competitive, but we also need to remember our value. And a lot of that pricing issue seems to be tied with things like guilt or fear. So I think that's probably been the most surprising. When you think of financial coaching, you're thinking it's just about spreadsheets and numbers, but a lot of what's actually going on is about behaviour and working with the client to help them to move past that and to get to that next stage with their business as well.

Gabi

So when you say fear. Fear of what do you think?

Jeanette

Do you know what? A lot of it is fear of losing business. It's a fear of... So quite a few of people that I've worked with has been... You know, they've built a business, they've built a small business where they've become very good friends with their clients and their customers, and it's that fear that they may actually lose them if they put their pricing up. But I personally think that you have to remember that it's all just about communication. And also remembering that if you're not putting up your pricing, you're actually paying yourself less than you did the year before, given the way that inflation has been going. So it's just about making sure that you're doing it in the right way when you are adjusting your pricing.

Gabi

Do you, as part of the coaching then, work with women to work out how to have that conversation?

Jeanette

Yes, absolutely. Yes. So I will work with them around how the communication will be around that and why they need to do it. So obviously the decision is always theirs on whether they go ahead and decide to move the prices higher, but it's about working out the scenarios if they don't, and then how can they effectively communicate that with their clients. And just going back to what I was saying before, just remembering their value. It's about going back to the reasons you started that business as well and what you are hoping to achieve.

Gabi

Have you found that that conversation has changed in a AI world?

Jeanette

Oh, so that's interesting. So with AI, well, funny enough, when I started thinking about setting up the business, it was actually my dad said to me, "Are you sure about this? What about AI? You've got so much information out there regarding anything really, especially money." But I'm still a big believer in people. So I think AI is a great tool, and it can definitely help you to figure out things, particularly when it comes to money, you know, some options. But actually figuring out what's the right option for yourself is sometimes not always easy. There's so much noise out there. So I'm a big believer personally that actually having somebody that can help you run through all those options and, figure out whether that next step is right for you makes the most sense.

Gabi

Do you use AI much in your business?

Jeanette

I do. I definitely do. I think every business should be using it. Particularly, as women, you know, I think that we tend to think that we need to do everything ourself. Using tools that are out there to help you be more efficient, absolutely, I think that you've got to be able to do that. So, whether it be helping to formulate an email, or a marketing tool. If social media is not your natural thing, to help you to come up with some ideas. I think that AI is a great tool to have. But at the end of the day, think that the person that is running the business or the person that's using the tool needs to make that final decision of how to go out there and use it effectively.

Gabi

Completely agree. Just coming back to money for a second. I've got 20 years experience in finance and it's quite interesting the things people believe about money and the market and investing. What are some of the myths that you have to dispel with people?

Jeanette

One of the myths is definitely that the stock market isn't for everyone. I don't obviously tell people what to invest in, but what I do do is just to help them to understand the differences between asset classes. Personally, what I see is that in the UK there does seem to be quite a risk-averse approach to financial markets. And I think it's just about a lack of education and understanding, to be honest with you. So one of the things I work through with clients is just about understanding the different sort of aspects of stock markets, what is volatility, what is inflation, how do these things impact stocks and shares? The fact that equities and stocks and shares, it's all the same things. Just trying to get through the jargon that's out there and help people to understand a bit more in a simpler way. Because I do think one thing the financial industry is great at doing is making things seem very complicated. My last role, was in a crypto firm. Even within the crypto industry, they couldn't agree on the terms to use for the particular things that were going on. So how on earth were people outside of that industry gonna understand what it actually was?

Gabi

There's a bit of a narrative at the moment about international security and there was actually something, I think it was from the government that said, "Oh, people should keep more cash under the bed,". If the internet went down or whatever. Given women are already naturally more risk-averse than men, what is your view on that and how would you counter it?

Jeanette

I don't think that that's very helpful for anybody to scaremonger. There's a lot of stuff that goes on in the media that seems to be about just the headline and not enough substance underneath it. When I think about cash, really the only time that you want to have cash is for an emergency, for a buffer. I've touched on inflation before, but I think the current UK inflation data is around 3.1%. If you've got cash under the bed or cash in an account which is not giving you interest above that 3.1%, it's essentially worth less when you put it in to when you take it out. Your purchasing power has decreased. I think that that's something that people don't think about enough. If you put 10 pounds in a bank, you wanna make sure that that 10 pounds that you put in the bank or under your bed, is gonna buy you the same thing when you want access to it. You should always have an element of cash. It's useful to think about money in time horizons and buckets of, what do you actually need in the next few years? Is there anything that's coming up that you may need to purchase. Or you've got a commitment, you know, maybe you want to buy a house? You've got to think about those things in stages. And then when you think about those things and the time horizons, what are you going to do to make sure that that money that you had on day one is gonna have the same purchasing power or better purchasing power when you need to pay for those items?

Gabi

Then I guess you might get the counter, which is the money under the bed is mine and nobody can take it away.

Jeanette

Yep, that's true. That is true. It's just whether it's gonna be worth the same when you want to use it.

Gabi

What's the thing you love most about your business?

Jeanette

I love working with people. I've always been a people person. Most of the roles that I did were relationship roles. So for me, that's the bit I love most. That I can continue that into my own business. Seeing the people that I work with and the outcomes they get, that's what I most enjoy about it

Gabi

Is there something that you don't enjoy that surprised you, that you thought you might enjoy that you don't?

Jeanette

Well, I wouldn't say I thought I would enjoy it, but, I definitely find the social media side very uncomfortable. But I always knew that I wouldn't, so that's not really a surprise, I guess. I think though, with anything you do in life, I think that you just have to sometimes get over those uncomfortable moments and not thinking too much about it. That's the thing I would say.

Gabi

Have you had any good tips that helped you get through that social media barrier that really helped?

Jeanette

Yes. So a few people have said to me, "Just don't look at the video. Do it once and put it out there. Don't even analyse it in any way." I'm getting better at that. And actually, one thing that did help me... A friend of mine is a business coach who focuses on marketing, and she actually said to me to have a think about what you feel most comfortable with. And marketing isn't just about social media. I think at the moment we feel it's the be-all and end-all, but actually some people are good at the written word. Some people are better from a visual point of view, like videos and podcasts and social media. And some people, it's about those relationships. And so it's thinking about what actually suits you as a person, and I think that was really helpful to me. I think it's good to have a presence in all aspects, but actually the one that I feel the most comfortable with is those connections, is those people. So yeah, I'm trying to focus my marketing on that side of things.

Gabi

What's your biggest challenge at the moment? What is it one year in?

Jeanette

Yeah, nearly one year in and I found the hardest is that it takes so much longer than you ever realise. And given the background that I had where I said it was so immediate, the impact that you had, I think learning that has been the biggest challenge for me. But it's about just having that confidence in what you're doing and the strategy that you have. Not sort of plugging away just for the sake of plugging away. Reassessing as you go along, but actually just having the confidence in what you're doing that you're on the right track. But yeah, the biggest challenge I think is that it just takes so much longer than you ever imagined.

Gabi

I hear that. That confidence piece though, I guess we all have those days where maybe the confidence is low. What helps you get through those days?

Jeanette

So on those days, I think it's about just taking a step away from it and not letting it get on top of you, and just going back to why did you start this business? Why did you set out to do this? What's your real main goals? Some people want to build this incredible, massive, high-earning business from day one, but I think it's about making sure that you remember what's important to you rather than what happens out there in the world and the influences that you might think is the most important thing. I think it's sometimes about taking that step back, and just remembering what's important to you

Gabi

That's a wonderful segue then to my next question, which is firstly, have you got a five-year plan?

Jeanette

I do have a five-year plan. And actually, strangely enough, I've always had a five-year plan in everything that I've done. So, going into the business, it was something that was quite natural to me to have that five-year plan. I think that things come up, though, to make your five-year plan, a little bit extended or sometimes the opposite as well. You know, things happen much quicker than you expected. So when I was saying before things take a lot longer than you expect, sometimes things actually take off much quicker as well. For me, the five-year plan is about expanding my offering, beyond some of the areas that I've been focused on so far. I've been very lucky to work with some women's groups, some networks. But it's about expanding beyond there as well. I'd really like to work in the school kind of area. So that sixteen to eighteen-year-old group., Is something that I would love to do, maybe offering workshops.

Gabi

Even though there is some financial education in schools at the moment, it always feels a little bit theoretical and not practical enough. Have you found that in your conversations with other parents, for example?

Jeanette

Yeah, absolutely. And actually, last week I had a conversation with a friend's daughter that was heading off to university, and you're right. There has been financial literacy within schools since 2012, but I don't think that it has gone deep enough, and it's that practical side of things. So she was going off to university and just really wanted to have a conversation about, different elements of it, you know, about budgeting. She's never had to run her own finances in any way. But also she was very interested also about how does she think about the step after university. I don't know enough about what's being taught in the schools, but from the people that I have spoken to that have just come through the education system, there definitely seems to be a gap of that practical financial education which can be used when they're moving into adulthood at the end of the day. You know, they're leaving school and going off on their own, and they want to have a bit more of an understanding about how to manage their money themselves going forward.

Gabi

I wish somebody taught me about tax when I was in high school. So when you set up your business, or looking back now, is there something you wish you knew when you set out on this journey?

Jeanette

There's quite a few things I guess I wish I'd known. The marketing thing that I mentioned that a friend of mine recently told me about, just thinking about what elements of it you're most comfortable with. I think that was definitely something which, could have helped me at the beginning rather than sort of struggling for days of videoing, posts for Instagram and then deleting them. That would've saved a lot of time. Oh, actually, another good piece of advice I think I'd give people is that, do you know what? There's never gonna be the right time. I left my job in the summer, and I spent quite a few months trying to get everything perfect before I decided to actually launch my business. And I think that that's something that I would also say. It's never gonna be perfect. Actually, you can work it out as you go along as well. Have a rough outline and a plan of what you're hoping to achieve, but don't think that you need every element of that business to be perfect before you put yourself out there. Because it is scary to put yourself out there, and particularly if you're doing it on your own. You know, you haven't necessarily got anybody else to run things by or to, just get some confirmation from. So I think that that's one of the things I would definitely say is just, don't be a perfectionist. It doesn't need to be perfect on day one. Things can always be adjusted and changed.

Gabi

Do you find women tend to be bigger perfectionists? We're very hard on ourselves naturally, I think.

Jeanette

Yeah, I definitely think that it's a characteristic that we seem to have a lot of. And I think it's a case of lot of the times it's just wanting to understand all the elements of what makes that decision. And, maybe it goes back to what you were saying before as well, about being risk-averse, and it's about worrying that you're gonna make the wrong decision. But actually, that's okay. You can make wrong decisions as you go along as well, and it's about learning from those things that do go wrong. Because that's the other thing I would say, it's about evolving. I've always tried to do that throughout my career. I'm a big believer that if you stay in one position, that you stop growing as an individual. So it's about trying to evolve and learn. So that's probably one of the things also. I think we do tend to be more perfectionist... Oh, sorry, I didn't say that very well, just perfectionists. See? I'm not perfect, can't even say the word. But we do tend to be perfectionists. But I also think it comes back to that fear, that worrying that we're going to fail. And actually, that's okay. That's okay.

Gabi

I didn't come from a family that had anybody that were business people, so my template for life never included being a business person. I just went straight into corporate life after school, and that was my mental model.

Jeanette

Mm.

Gabi

And I think looking back that's one of my regrets. I wish somebody told me it was an option. How do you think we could encourage more young children to go into business? And actually, I guess linked to that, would you encourage your own kids to go into business?

Jeanette

Yes, 100%. I actually... I feel the same as you. I didn't have anybody that was a business owner. I actually didn't even have anybody that worked in the corporate world, funny enough. Both my parents were public servants. So for me, I guess now going forward for my daughter, I would definitely encourage her to have that option to be an entrepreneur, to be a business owner. And I do think it's something that we should be encouraging more, and I think that it comes down to skills. It comes down to teaching kids to be resilient and inquisitive and making sure that they understand what sort of tools that they have to their hand. Actually, anybody can be a business person now. You can see it. You know, people have social media accounts with millions of followers. I'm not saying that everybody should do that as a career, but what I mean is that actually being more open to what the other options are. Because I do think it is tough at the moment from an economical point of view, and if you are set on that path then you may be disappointed. And actually, it was I used to talk to interns that came through, when I was working in finances. Also, even when they'd come and intern, say, on our desk, I'd say to them, "If somebody does say to you that maybe you might be more suited to a research position, then be open to go and explore that," because actually you're so young when you start the process of going out into the working world. But also age, it shouldn't even matter, about it being an age thing. It's also about always reassessing what your options could be and not making something seem that it's unachievable and unattainable for you because actually, most people have the same access to going out there and doing something, if they want to.

Gabi

It always struck me when I worked with interns and grads back when I was in corporate, how there was almost a panic about them defining their career path and having it all worked out at the age of 22. I had to have that conversation so often, which is that you're gonna have a 30, 40-year career. Your first job isn't going to define you. But I do wonder if it's an effect of this focus on degrees? It's so expensive. We've almost created this environment where we're no longer encouraging young kids, or young adults, to just experiment.

Jeanette

Yeah, I agree. And I think that personally, I was very lucky I didn't have to pay for my university education. But I often think that if it was a case of having to pay, I probably wouldn't have gone down that route. I think that for me it would've been a big barrier to get over thinking about taking on that debt at that time. And so I think that actually, you know, if you are in that position, then actually just making sure you explore all the options which are out there. It doesn't have to be the only path. That's what I think is key.

Gabi

Right. Government. I don't know how you feel about the government, either big government or the local government, do you have a wish for something the government could do to better support small business owners?

Jeanette

Oh, 100%. I think that the situation for small business owners at the moment is really tough in terms of all the taxes that are having to be paid. I mean, I do believe that we should all pay tax. I'm not saying that we shouldn't pay tax, but at the moment, it seems to be coming from every single angle. Whether it be sort of anything from business rates, if people have got an actual retail business, whether it be, you know, you're employing somebody. The national insurance that's gone up. If you're running a limited company, and now the tax structure there has changed as well. I just think that it's so tough for small businesses at this point, and actually just giving them some incentives because at the end of the day we're doing this on our own. You know, we're putting ourselves in a position where we have decided to move away from comfortable salaries to something which is a tougher situation. As I said, it, it takes so much longer than you ever expect, and therefore you've got to be able to support and encourage that. And I just think also for things like communities, you need small businesses. We need that connection. We need people to supply the local bakery, to be a local bakery or to offer a service, such as a yoga teacher. You know, things like this. We need these people within our community that bring people together as well. So that would be my wish, to reassess what's currently quite a crippling tax regime.

Gabi

I'm not yet paying tax, but I'm sure it's an issue I'm going to have to deal with. I've got some quick-fire questions for you. My first question is - what do you believe your industry is getting wrong? And I guess here industry is really finance.

Jeanette

I would say that one of the things is jargon. I think that simplifying the jargon would definitely be something to reassess. And I think that when you have complicated sort of jargon and things that people you can't just simply explain, then that's a problem. That's a problem for everybody.

Gabi

What is a mistake you made that changed how you operate?

Jeanette

I think actually one of the mistakes that I've definitely made is the, the pricing, funny enough. And funny enough, when I speak to other people about this, it's about maybe not always respecting my own value. So it's a message I have to give for myself. It's about actually having confidence in the service that you're providing and the value, and not having any guilt around the fact that this is a service that I'm providing and this is the cost.

Gabi

What is something a customer said to you that stuck with you?

Jeanette

I've had some very good positive testimonials. People saying it to me in person that actually I've just helped them to break things down into a much simpler way and feel much less overwhelmed than they were at the beginning. So I guess that's something that stuck with me... Actually, it's one of my first clients that I had, and she just said, "You've just helped me to make things feel like they're achievable."

Gabi

I think it can be such a weight off.

Jeanette

Yeah

Gabi

I find that when I get overwhelmed I just stick my head in the sand and then it just gets worse.

Jeanette

Yeah. And I think that that's a common theme as well. It's like that avoidance, particularly when it comes to money. People just avoid it. They don't wanna look at their bank app. They don't wanna look at the bills. They just wanna think, that's something that they can put over there and forget about. So it's a common theme.

Gabi

What do you refuse to compromise on?

Jeanette

Oh, that's an interesting one. I guess it's actually my boundaries. So I decided when I started this business that I was gonna be very strict in terms of the boundaries that I had for when I work, because I do have a family. I am trying to balance everything, and it's probably one of the things I haven't been so good about in the past. So actually, that's one thing I'm not gonna compromise on now. This is a business that I want to be successful in, but it has to be on my terms.

Gabi

How do you do that? How do you maintain those boundaries?

Jeanette

Well, I would say that I am still learning as I go along, but I am now trying to put in place certain days and times that I work. Whereas previously, at the beginning, I would've just said, "Oh, when works for you?". Now I'm trying to be much more assertive. These are the times that I work, and these are the hours that are free now. So just trying to put that in place, so that I have that structure and then I'm more in control of it.

Gabi

What are you reading, watching, or listening to right now?

Jeanette

Oh, that's an interesting one. I wasn't expecting that. I've just finished The Artist, who I can't remember what the author is. But that's a very good book. I really enjoyed that. My book club book is actually The Coast Path, so that's the one I'm moving onto. And then I have just started watching the recent series of Slow Horses. And what was the final part of that? Read, watch, listening? Oh, well, I'm a podcast person, so I'm listening to an episode of The Diary of a CEO.

Gabi

That the latest one he did?

Jeanette

I'm actually not sure. I think it's Drusky. I don't know whether that's the latest one.

Gabi

There was one that came out this morning about WeWork that collapsed.

Jeanette

Oh, I'll definitely be listening to that one.

Gabi

My last podcast guest also was watching Slow Horses. So I feel like that's the thing to do.

Jeanette

Have you never watched it?

Gabi

Nothing.

Jeanette

Oh, it's great. I think it's like, series six or something now. It's really good. They're not very long in terms of each series, but they're very... It just makes you wanna watch the next one. You know, one of those that just keeps you coming back.

Gabi

I will have to get involved.

Jeanette

Definitely. Oh, on Apple TV. Oh, I'm not sure if I should have said that.

Gabi

How can communities like Female Founders support businesses like yours to grow and be sustainable?

Jeanette

Do you know what? I think one of the most important things is just having other people that are in the same situation as you to just have a chat with and an honest conversation, and let's just be open and tell each other where we're struggling and help each other. And I think that personally, that's why I love these kind of communities because running your own business can be a really lonely experience. So don't think that you have to do it on your own because there's so many other people out there in the same situation as you. I think that that would be one of the key things that I personally think and take from the communities. I do think, you know, elements of bringing experts in to learn off and work with, going back to what we've talked a few times about. You're not gonna be able to be the person that can do everything. I actually did a silly social media post a few months back about wearing loads of different hats, but it's true. You know, as business owners, we're expected to be the one that came up with the idea, the strategist, the marketing person, the finance person, and I'm sure there are some people out there that are brilliant at all those things, but most of us will not be. You know, they probably have our strengths. So I think these communities you either meet somebody within the community that that is their strength or you bring people in to help others learn off of, like an expert. That's also I think quite useful.

Gabi

Our final question is stolen from another big podcast that may or may not have been named on this episode already, where each guest leaves a question for the next guest. If I asked you what question should I ask my next guest to get a bit more of an insight into their business, what would it be?

Jeanette

I actually think that you mentioned this before, but I would say what motivates you? I think that that's always a great question to ask somebody because I think that one of the things I think that really doesn't work in the corporate world is understanding what motivates individuals. So I think that that's a great question to ask somebody because you just get a better understanding about why have they really... why did they really do this business, and what do they hope to achieve?

Gabi

I like that. So what motivates you? What are you hoping to achieve?

Jeanette

I think that the most important things to me are, like I mentioned before, my family. My family motivate me. And I think that always has motivated me. So I think that having that ability to run a business where I genuinely get that positive outcome, but at the same time able to balance that with the life outside of work that I want. I think that's what personally motivates me the most.

Gabi

Well, that just leaves me to thank you for your time today. We have been joyously absent of any tech gremlins, I think. Let's see what this video comes out like later. But it's been an absolute pleasure, and I can't wait to do our, event together on the 2nd of November. Let me just plug that right now!

Jeanette

Looking forward to it. It'll be great. I'm sure that there'll be some lovely ladies at the event, and it'll be a fun evening.

Gabi

And there'll be wine. What's not to love?

Gabi

Thank you so much for getting to the end of the podcast. I hope that means that you've watched the whole thing and that you enjoyed it every little bit as much as I loved recording it. We would love to hear from you, whether you've got feedback on the format of the podcasts, the content, or the sort of guests that you would love to see in future. Or actually, if you have any recommendations on really badass female founders, business owners in Surrey that you think we should get onto the podcast, please let me know. You can get in touch on the website, on my email or through Instagram. I'd love to hear from you. Please, can you also help us grow the podcast by liking, subscribing or sharing with your friends, family and other really cool business owners that you might know? Thank you.